TV High SchoolsComplications Ensue
Complications Ensue:
The Crafty Screenwriting, TV and Game Writing Blog




Archives

April 2004

May 2004

June 2004

July 2004

August 2004

September 2004

October 2004

November 2004

December 2004

January 2005

February 2005

March 2005

April 2005

May 2005

June 2005

July 2005

August 2005

September 2005

October 2005

November 2005

December 2005

January 2006

February 2006

March 2006

April 2006

May 2006

June 2006

July 2006

August 2006

September 2006

October 2006

November 2006

December 2006

January 2007

February 2007

March 2007

April 2007

May 2007

June 2007

July 2007

August 2007

September 2007

October 2007

November 2007

December 2007

January 2008

February 2008

March 2008

April 2008

May 2008

June 2008

July 2008

August 2008

September 2008

October 2008

November 2008

December 2008

January 2009

February 2009

March 2009

April 2009

May 2009

June 2009

July 2009

August 2009

September 2009

October 2009

November 2009

December 2009

January 2010

February 2010

March 2010

April 2010

May 2010

June 2010

July 2010

August 2010

September 2010

October 2010

November 2010

December 2010

January 2011

February 2011

March 2011

April 2011

May 2011

June 2011

July 2011

August 2011

September 2011

October 2011

November 2011

December 2011

January 2012

February 2012

March 2012

April 2012

May 2012

June 2012

July 2012

August 2012

September 2012

October 2012

November 2012

December 2012

January 2013

February 2013

March 2013

April 2013

May 2013

June 2013

July 2013

August 2013

September 2013

October 2013

November 2013

December 2013

January 2014

February 2014

March 2014

April 2014

May 2014

June 2014

July 2014

August 2014

September 2014

October 2014

November 2014

December 2014

January 2015

February 2015

March 2015

April 2015

May 2015

June 2015

August 2015

September 2015

October 2015

November 2015

December 2015

January 2016

February 2016

March 2016

April 2016

May 2016

June 2016

July 2016

August 2016

September 2016

October 2016

November 2016

December 2016

January 2017

February 2017

March 2017

May 2017

June 2017

July 2017

August 2017

September 2017

October 2017

November 2017

December 2017

January 2018

March 2018

April 2018

June 2018

July 2018

October 2018

November 2018

December 2018

January 2019

February 2019

November 2019

February 2020

March 2020

April 2020

May 2020

August 2020

September 2020

October 2020

December 2020

January 2021

February 2021

March 2021

May 2021

June 2021

November 2021

December 2021

January 2022

February 2022

August 2022

September 2022

November 2022

February 2023

March 2023

April 2023

May 2023

July 2023

September 2023

November 2023

January 2024

February 2024

 

Wednesday, November 05, 2008

We were watching the BUFFY pilot for research (no, really!) and the question came up: where does the social structure of high school in TV come from? Because every show about TV has a Queen Bee character (along with her Court Attendants), and none of us has ever been to a high school with such a person. My high school was full of cliques that ignored each other. Have you been to a stereotypical high school? If not, where did this construct come from?

20 Comments:

Thinking back through all of my favorite high school films and TV shows, there WAS always a Queen Bee. But my high school (private US) had the same make-up you describe - cliques with hard boundaries between them and no one really intermingled, let alone affected the social order of another.

That said, I just finished speccing "Gossip Girl", so it's extremely difficult for my mind to accept right now that the Queen Bee ISN'T a reality.

By Blogger The Spec Life, at 10:35 PM  

I went to a public school in Australia. There was a Queen Bee, but she wasnt a bitch. Primarily she was the most popular because she was nice to everyone, funny and pretty smart. We had groups, but they mingled slightly. Rarely had warfare between two groups. Kinda boring to be honest.

By Blogger Scott, at 10:43 PM  

We didn't have a queen bee, more like a group of dominant bees. They were annoying, but much more so in middle school than in high school, so I think it's worse if you go to a small school.

By Blogger Emily Blake, at 11:02 PM  

It's drama! Social stratification and elaborate hierarchies are a lot more interesting than cliques of people who ignore each other. The "queen bee" stereotypes that we so often see are plentiful because it's the most obvious direction to take.

What I think is a more common experience is to have CONTEXTUAL hierarchies. The jocks are on top during gym class, but the nerds assert themselves during calculus and the band and theater kids assert themselves during, well, whatever band and theater kids did. If you were a jock in drama class you felt as worthless and alienated as nerds felt on the soccer field.

By Blogger Michael, at 12:25 AM  

I think when you're on the inside of the "Queen Bee" clique, the perception is that you're on top of the school. I'm not sure any other clique sees it this way (or even cares), but I feel like the kids who actually were the dominant "popular kids" in middle school still perceived themselves that way in high school, regardless of the reality.

By Blogger Sophia, at 12:37 AM  

I'm so happy you brought up Buffy. I'm re-watching the entire series because it seems like the right thing to do. I'm almost done first season and I'm on the episode "Out of Mind, Out of Sight". The episode is about a girl who becomes invisible because that's how she's treated. Cordelia is a main focus in this episode. (I'm pausing it right now so I can talk about.)

Though the idea of a "queen bee" doesn't fit in with normal high school social dynamics, I do think it serves a greater purpose character-wise.

Buffy: If you feel so alone why do you work so hard at being popular?

Cordelia: Well, it beats being alone all by yourself.

Being a queen bee may not compare to our high school experiences but loneliness does. That teenage feeling of feeling invisible and all the different ways different people feel invisible. (I've never repeated so many words in one sentence before. Kudos to me.)

Sometimes we have to leave natural structures for not only the sake of entertainment but the sake of revealing greater character themes. In this case, invisibility.

One of the big reasons Buffy was so popular is because of the way teenagers related to the show. I'm a forum geek and I've been browsing the Buffy boards lately. So many cyber people talk about which episodes, characters, quotes, etc, resonated with them.

Maybe I'm just looking too much into it. But, those are my thoughts. There they were.

As for my high school in the Utopia best known as Oshawa, Ontario, we didn't have any queen bees. The drama kids ran my school.

Thank God I was a drama kid.

By Blogger THE FLEMINIST, at 1:06 AM  

The most realistic portrayal of high school (for me) I recall seeing on film was Dazed and Confused. I never found the groups completely isolated, like they're portrayed on TV and in films. They mixed and mingled to a certain degree. I don't know if things have changed today, though.

And I knew several of the characters in Dazed and Confused. I remember a Wooderson especially. He certainly didn't look like Matthew McConaughey, though.

By Blogger Tim W., at 1:55 AM  

I went to a public school in Germany and we definitely had a Queen Bee as well as those surrounding her. Interesting thing I found out: those who were at their best in high school didn't continue like that in real life. None of them has an outstanding career or did anything really special in their lives (at least not that I know of). I don't know if they realize this, but they are not of any importance to other people in the way they might have been or thought of themselves in high school. On the other hand, some of those who were in one of the other cliques did quite well. Does that phenomena appear on TV at all?

By Blogger Svenja, at 2:06 AM  

Perhaps this conception of the High School comes from the way TV writers wish they were at High School, a form of wish fulfillment? I sometimes catch myself using writing as a way to fulfill deep routed wishes.

Child therapists often have their patients draw pictures in order to get at these deep routed feeling. Writing as wish fulfillment is a bit freudian but also very satisfying.

By Blogger George, at 4:38 AM  

Well you're mixing in a lot of things here.

There are two main things that influence what you're talking about here:

type of school and population of school.

I think that the phenom of the cliques, the separateness of the cliques, and whether or not there was a queen bee is affected mightily by whether you're talking public or private high school. A public high school with a more heterogenuous student makeup is liable to have more diverse cliques that don't mix very much at all.

And the smaller the school, the more likely that there would be "a" queen bee.

I went to a public high school, student population about 1500, and there wasn't a queen bee per se, but there were definitely a few top cliques depending on where you sat.

The other high school in the area only had about 500 students. And I went to paries there and there was DEFINITELY a top of the strata royalty, and everyone knew who those people were.

So there you go.

By Blogger DMc, at 7:24 AM  

The Queen Bee is just a storytelling substitute for the school bully. If your main character is female, you can't really have a varsity linebacker threaten to beat the crap out of her. Also, a cheerleader threatening to beat the crap out of her would take a really good actor to make convincing.

School bullies are generally more enjoyable adversaries because you can make them irrational and still believable. Whereas, if the adversary is a parent or teacher you must tread a finer line or the viewer will wonder why lawyers, police, or social services haven't intervened.

By Blogger Keith, at 7:50 AM  

In my experience there's at least several queen bees and they do intermingle with one another. They're "besties" as they call themselves. Of course, when ever they break off from the whole they immediatly gossip and trash talk the others.

As far as the intermingling goes with other cliques, it was actually pretty wide and open and everyone talked to everyone. And then they talked about everyone behind their back and stirred up drama.

The only falsity I've found in stereotypical arch-types from high school is that the football team isn't made up of assholes.

That's the Hockey Team's job.

By Blogger Andrew Kosarko - Screenwriter, at 9:14 AM  

I attended two very different high schools. My first two years were spent at a typical large public high school in a large metropolitan area in the US. My second two years were spent at a slightly smaller magnet high school for the arts. These two experiences could not have been more different.

At the first high school, there was a clique of "popular" kids. They were mostly vehemently disliked by the rest of the school (calling into question the definition of 'popular'). There were plenty of girls in this group and most of them were mean, but I don't recall there being ONE girl in the 'Queen Bee' role.

At my second high school, it was an arts school, so popularity was based more on talent and was VERY contextual. There were no "typical" cliques of jocks, stoners, goths, etc... all of those types mingled freely with each other, but were more separated based on talent and art form. But still no Queen Bee.

Interesting post! I'd never thought of this before...

By Blogger Laurie Stark, at 11:33 AM  

@ Tim W.: Ironically, "Dazed & Confused" features TWO Queen Bees - Parker Posey is the stereotypical dictator and Michelle Burke is the sweet, beautiful girl that every guy wants to date and every girl wants as a sister. Interesting seeing BOTH exist without conflict in essentially the same social circle.

@ Clifford Myers: I'll always see Charisma Carpenter was my generation's baseline Queen Bee. I actually remember her moving from that role on the cancelled "Malibu Shores" to "Buffy" - EW made her a "Winner of the Week" for it.

By Blogger The Spec Life, at 1:23 PM  

I agree with Clifford. If anything, it's a useful satire/story convention to exaggerate certain characters/themes for the genre or to create an easier to use plot device.

Even though I think it might be more of a middle school phenomenon in real life than a high school one. Something similar happened at my college in the social cliques, though, but that disappeared by my junior year. And while in college hanging out with friends still in high school, they complained about the "bunnies," essentially the "popular" yet asshole group.

By Blogger The_Lex, at 4:30 PM  

I think it comes out of necessity. You can't tell a high school story about the ENTIRE high school. It's too much, too many people. But in any group, there is conflict, leaders and followers, etc. So in reality there might be several groups with queen bees and alpha males leading, but you can't put all that into one show.

Also, we might have the stereotype of looking for a sexy person known by everyone to be Queen Bee, but there could be many queen bees that we don't see because they don't match our definition or we don't pay them enough mind.

By Blogger Monsterbeard, at 6:15 PM  

@Emily Blake: excellent point(s)! But who knew Joss Whedon might be guilty of sloppy outlining?

By Blogger blogward, at 2:42 AM  

Whit, you're right about the `queen bees'. I'd forgotten about that. We never had any of those in high school. Generally, the more popular kids would look out for the younger kids, so bullying for the most part was non-existent, as far as I knew. Looking back, I think my high school was fairly extraordinary in many respects. Even way back then, there was a gay kid who wanted to bring his boyfriend to the prom and most students didn't care. It was the staff who decided against it. The student council (of which I was on during this dispute), unanimously voted for the kid.

By Blogger Tim W., at 12:47 PM  

Buffy always struck me as a very simplistic example of how large high schools work, but I always put it down to being a California public high school in a well to-do small town (so more social homogeneous than the same size school in a bigger or more socially stratified town).

In my high school (and I think in many others), there were a bunch of different cliques, each with their top dogs. And then there was the 'popular clique', who existed by virtue of having wealthier parents, playing soccer and football, holding some of the more socially developed college prep kids, and similar. They had their own top dogs as well, and maybe a third of the rest of the school wanted to be popular like the 'popular kids', while everyone else just knew who they were but didn't care much about it.

Although I heard that, a year before I started school, there was a massive conflict between the punks and the football players over the most 'popular' girl in the school . . . (the lead punk had once been a popular kid, and knew her well, and things went on from there . . .).

My junior high was *much* worse - it was Catholic, so we had wealthy kids and lower-middle class kids from devout families. The lower-middle class ones almost all left for the public schools before high school, they were treated so poorly in the meantime.

I think Veronica Mars does a better job of mapping out a believable high school, partially because it was defined as a very specific, restricted social entity: ultra-wealthy versus ultra-poor, with some stragglers left out in the middle. And, in that circumstance, there were the top dogs of the popular kids, the top dogs of the disenfranchised, and Veronica who eventually became a top dog of everybody except the most popular ones.

By Blogger Unknown, at 2:42 PM  

My high school had a Queen Bees, the jocks, drama people, nerds, etc. It's just that the movies make these types larger than life.

p.s. I went to public school in America.

By Blogger Karen, at 2:42 PM  

Post a Comment

Back to Complications Ensue main blog page.



This page is powered by Blogger.